christopherrobin
Forum Elder
“People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.”
Posts: 259 
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Post by christopherrobin on Jan 29, 2015 10:38:16 GMT -5
As with everything, there are good aspects and bad aspects with meetup.
The Roaring Plains situation: The meetup group did the base camp/Rim trip as described on Mike's website. The group came in the night before we did, so we basically followed their footsteps the day after. A Lot of footsteps. We did run into several other hikers who did actually run into them and told me about the mob scene and chain saw. I followed up on the meetup website, there were several comments from the people who went thanking the leader for bringing the chainsaw.
Seriously?
Maybe its just me, but I go hiking to enjoy nature and solitude. 30 people in a group with a chainsaw doesn't seem to be appropriate for a national forest, park or wilderness area.
I have actually been revising my hiking/backpacking trips based on where the local meetup groups are going. While I think its great that it gets people out and enjoying the great outdoors, I think many groups push the boundaries of what is good for the trails that we use.
Now if I want to hike at say Trout Run, I look at meetups in the area. If they have a trip planned for Tibbet Knob with 30 people and more already signed up. I change my plan.
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Post by arfcomhkr on Jan 29, 2015 10:48:43 GMT -5
Sounds like a normal weekend at Judy Springs on Seneca Creek. Nothing there would surprise me, up to and including circus animals and performing mimes.  |
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Post by aseege1 on Jan 29, 2015 10:58:05 GMT -5
Please keep in mind that this does not reflect the actions of all backpacking meetup groups. The group you are referring to, the Washington Backpackers, are known for their failure to adhere to LNT. Unfortunately, 30 people in a group is small for them. They bring 60+ to Judy Springs. I'm a part of MAB and there is a ten person maximum for each trip. Typically it doesn't even fill up. Our leader, Gary, is an LNT master and actively punishes (and sometimes) banishes those who don't act responsibly in natural environments. Sadly, they all must just run to WB. There's a lot of responsible meetups out there, don't let one bad ruin the reputation of the rest. I suppose the problem, though, is "anyone" can start a meetup group. |
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ki0eh
Forum Elder
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Post by ki0eh on Jan 29, 2015 14:36:31 GMT -5
If sharing the trail with too-big meetup groups bothers you, head to PA, beyond the A.T. (or possibly Old Loggers Path or West Rim Trail) it's pretty much deserted.
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Post by dunkard on Jan 29, 2015 16:25:48 GMT -5
kiOeh its not a matter of moving somewhere else its against Wilderness regs to have a group of more than 10 people and Chainsaws are not permited in wilderness areas. This is a lil disturbing to me that people would act like this especially ones that are promoting and encouraging the use on the wilderness areas
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Post by Admin on Jan 29, 2015 17:02:33 GMT -5
I've run into what I believe to be the WB group and, IMO, i find them to be more of a social networking... there is a less than kind descriptor that I have used in conversation but this is a family forum ... group whose primary motive is meeting those of the opposite sex. Conservation, LNT and environmental impact are way down at the bottom of their list of priorities.
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Post by Admin on Jan 29, 2015 17:05:14 GMT -5
I would also like to submit that the Boy Scouts of America are frequent violators of Wilderness policy and environmental impact ethics.
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vdeal
Forum Elder
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Post by vdeal on Jan 29, 2015 20:10:11 GMT -5
As dunked said, 10 is the max size for a Wilderness area and chainsaws are absolutely banned. In fact, the USFS had to use crosscut saws to clear the trails in Otter Creek after Superstorm Sandy. Does anyone know what they cut? Maybe someone should monitor this group and if they're headed for a Wilderness area alert the local Forest Ranger to be on the lookout. I certainly would. This is just wrong.
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vdeal
Forum Elder
Posts: 616
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Post by vdeal on Jan 29, 2015 20:11:21 GMT -5
Oh, on the Judy Springs situation, I don't think I've ever seen a chainsaw or evidence thereof and since it isn't a Wilderness area there isn't a group size limit but common sense would dictate some limits.
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vdeal
Forum Elder
Posts: 616
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Post by vdeal on Jan 29, 2015 20:14:47 GMT -5
Just checked, looks like they have a Roaring Plains Winter trip planned for Feb. 20th. For anyone that wants to see their calendar here's the link - www.meetup.com/dc-backpackers/events/ |
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Post by dunkard on Jan 29, 2015 21:38:16 GMT -5
Thanks for the link vdeal I'll be sure to check where there heading and plan accordingly. I worked as a backcountry ranger at Mount Rogers one summer. There are two wilderness areas down there we were responsible for patrolling and clearing trails on. The USFS was very strict about what we could and couldn't do within those boundaries. We usually just re routed the trail around the tree but if we had to cut it we had to use handsaws. Outside the wilderness we could use power tools.
Another interesting ban on all wilderness areas is the use of hang gliders. We had to replace some boundary signs and it was on the signs no use of wheeled carts, bikes or hang gliders.
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rpcv
Forum Elder
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Post by rpcv on Jan 30, 2015 9:00:01 GMT -5
I've seen these groups out and like someone else said, we'll change our hiking plans to avoid them. I volunteer on Old Rag and have seen just about all of the bad behavior from large groups (not limited to meetups) that you can imagine. One problem that is a bit unique to meetups is the fact that the group is a bunch of strangers hiking together. Depending on the trip leader, they may not have someone sweeping to make sure everyone on the hike is doing ok and makes it back to the bus/car. With scouts and church groups, the members of the group usually know each other and there is a bit of social accountability so people will usually (not always) look out for each other a little bit. A group of strangers who may never see each other again doesn't have the same cohesiveness.
We hiked the 12 mile Big Schloss loop described on this site once several years ago and there was a smaller meetup group that we kept leap-frogging out that day as well. It was a really, really hot day and one woman in the group was clearly struggling badly with the heat on the long climb up Mill Mountain. She was completely out of sight of the group and no one was hiking with her. We wound up passing her and just keeping her in view to make sure she got up the mountain ok. We spoke to the group leader and his attitude was, "well she shouldn't come out here if she can't keep up." No one else in the group seemed concerned about her, just concerned that she was slowing the group down a bit. I realize not every meetup group leader is like that, but when you are taking 30 or 60 people out, it is easy to lose track of people. When it is a group of people where a lot of the members don't know each other, it is even easier (did the guy in the red jacket make it back? what was his name? who last saw him?).
Anyway, my two cents.
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ki0eh
Forum Elder
Posts: 196
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Post by ki0eh on Jan 30, 2015 10:16:22 GMT -5
Maybe the meetup meat market people don't want to hike with the empty nester/retiree people in the old fashioned hiking clubs, but sometimes the old salts have figured out a thing or two about human nature as it applies to hike leadership. Here is one set of guidelines that might be considered: www.satc-hike.org/hikeldr.html |
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Post by aseege1 on Jan 30, 2015 11:01:36 GMT -5
Tons of middle-age/retirees in our group. Lots of good leaders. I believe Howard County chapter of Sierra has a pretty good one too.  |
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Post by aseege1 on Jan 30, 2015 13:42:36 GMT -5
Just checked, looks like they have a Roaring Plains Winter trip planned for Feb. 20th. For anyone that wants to see their calendar here's the link - www.meetup.com/dc-backpackers/events/Their leader, Jim Newman, has an in with the rangers, I think. Because, WB does trail maintenance and sign restoration for DS and RP. They go twice a year and throw an enormous party at the horse-farm camp afterwards. This * shouldn't be tolerated. I know for a fact that Gary, leader from our group, and Michael Martin, leader of DC UL, hold him in the lowest regard. |
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Post by LostintheUplands on Jan 31, 2015 0:48:57 GMT -5
I would also like to submit that the Boy Scouts of America are frequent violators of Wilderness policy and environmental impact ethics. As a BSA adult leader I would agree, to a certain extent. I have witnessed some these BSA trips and it isn't pretty, but please keep in mind we are all adult volunteers (some without a lot of backcountry experience) trying to provide an outdoor adventure to kids who would not otherwise have the opportunity to experience. Trust me when I say, some BSA adult leaders drive me crazy with their ideas of what constitutes a good idea for a backcountry trip, but trust me also, their hearts are in the right place. |
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